This Place is Death.

Let's talk about LOST! This Place is Death.

Sun {wearing wedding ring} sits in her car at the marina, watching Ben chat with Jack, Kate and Sayid. Sun’s phone rings; it’s her mom.
Sun explains she’s still in L.A., “Finishing up what I came to do.”   Sun will be on a plane tomorrow. {I’m sure you will! But to where?}
Ji Yeon talks to Sun on the phone.
Sun shares with her, “I met a new friend for you in America. His name is Aaron.” {He's sleeping.}
Ji Yeon misses mom and wants her to come home.
Sun-“I will be soon.”
She ends the call and turns her attention back to the group. She gets out of the car with her gun in hand.
Upset Kate asks Ben why he doesn’t leave her and her son alone.
Ben-“Because he’s not your son, Kate.”
Sun pulls the gun on Ben and tells Kate to move away.
Sun informs Kate that Aaron’s in the car; Kate runs to retrieve him.
Jack says to Sun, “I know you think you’re helping...”
Sun feels if it wasn't for Ben Jin would still be alive.
Ben-“I didn’t kill your husband, Sun.”
Ben says he didn’t kill him, neither did anyone else.   Ben goes on to say Jin is alive and he can prove it. Sun accuses him of lying.   Ben, who never takes his eyes off her, says he’s not. {This reminds me of when Ben was prisoner in the armory and he was full of lies as Henry Gale.}

Jin, weathered from his journey, looks across the island beach and the water.  The French team zeros in on a voice on the radio. 8 15 16 23 42  {It SOUNDS LIKE HURLEY/HUGO}.
Pregnant Danielle asks Jin if he’s all right.
He asks and she confirms she is Danielle Rousseau.   He asks her where she’s from.  Danielle tells him they sailed from Tahiti on November 15.
Jin-“NO! What year?”
Apparently it's 1988.
Jin tells her group that he needs to find his camp and they wonder, what camp?
Robert-“You were on this island before?”
Jin {in English} asks if they “See helicopter?” {Motioning his finger in a circular copter propeller motion.}
Montand mocks Jin, first the boat, then the helicopter; next he feels Jin will mention a submarine. Montand knows which way to go.  He tells Robert the signal is strong; there must be an antenna on the island. If they go there they can call for help. {Jin looks like he understands them for a second and realizes they’re wasting their time.}
Robert asks Jin if there’s an antenna on the island, a radio tower. {Uses hand gestures and draws in the sand to communicate. His drawn radio tower looks like the Eiffel Tower. Lol}
Jin tells them yes, but he needs to go to his camp “Because maybe the helicopter go there.”
Danielle asks him if he knows where his camp from their location, but Jin looks “lost”.
No he can’t, but he thinks he can find it from the radio tower.
Danielle-“Then go with us to the radio tower. “Then we find your camp.”
OK.
Robert- “That’s settled. Let’s get moving.”
Montand looks annoyed and Danielle’s face shows concern.{Watch Jin.} She asks Jin if he’s ready to go, and he is.
Danielle- “Who are you hoping to find?”
Jin-“My wife.” {Danielle looks worried}


Jin and the French team walk through the jungle.  All the while the radio is broadcasting {Man/Hurley’s voice} repeating, 4 8 15 16 23 42... Apparently Montand gives them direction. Danielle gets a pain. Robert tells her he knew it was a mistake, “You’re 7 months pregnant.”
Danielle says she’s fine, “She just gave her a little kick."
They cutely bicker about the baby being a girl.  {Alexandra}
Robert says it’s a boy {Alexander}.  Jin watches them.
Robert will get her water.
The group realizes Nadine isn’t there. Montand comments that this is what happens when you bring women, “She’s probably off chasing butterflies.”
Jin hears something...growling, clicking; he tells them it’s,“Monster.”
Danielle asks who saw Nadine last; she was right behind them.
Danielle suggests they go back to find her. Jin insists they must go.
Montand tells Jin to “Shut up.”
They call out in search for Nadine. Robert instructs Brennan and LaCombe to spread out and search. The Smoke Monster pops up! They look up and Nadine falls from above.
Jin tells them to “RUN!”
They end up in a group. Smokey drags Montand to a hole in the ground that seems to be going under a wall. The group grabs Montand’s arm in an effort to pull him out. His arm gets torn off and he is pulled in. The group hears Montand call for help from below. He tells them he’s hurt and that thing is gone. Robert wants to go in and get him but Jin stops him.
Robert-“Do not leave anyone behind.”
So the men head in.
Danielle wants to go in too but Jin stops her, “No! No! You don’t go-with baby.”
She picks up a rifle to cover the hole.
There's a high pitch buzz, bright light...Jin looks up {Danielle does not experience this}. Thumping!Jin grabs his head.  Danielle asks him what’s wrong but he keeps on grabbing his head. FLASH!
Jin is alone at the wall.
He looks up and around to see the wall appears to be an ancient ruin. {Glyphs}
He wants to look down the hole but kicks Montand’s torn off decaying arm. {Complete with watch.}
Jin drinks water from one of the giant leaves in the enchanted forest.
He looks around a sees a pillar of black smoke rising in the distance.
He makes his way to the beach to find it is set up with makeshift shelter and a campfire burning. Belongings are strune about. He finds a music box playing. {Dancers}
The flies are bothering him. {The violin case is open.}He discovers two bodies; they appear to have been shot.
Jin hears Danielle yelling at someone. He watches from behind leaves.
Danielle is yelling at Robert, saying he is not Robert, he’s someone else, “That thing has changed you.“
She and Robert are armed.
Robert loves Danielle but wonders why she is acting this way.
Danielle insists the monster made him sick.
Robert tells her it’s not a monster; it’s a security system guarding that temple. He loves her and wants her to put the gun down. He doesn’t want anything to happen to her or their baby.
She concedes.
Robert cocks his rifle, pulls the trigger but nothing happens! Danielle shoots him between the eyes.
Jin jumps out! Surprised Danielle says to Jin, “You! You disappeared.”
Jin- “No!...”
She feels Jin’s sick too. He’s a carrier.
Jin runs and Danielle shoots at him. Jin grabs his head…Flash.
Jin wakes up to Sawyer pointing a rifle at him. They are together again and in the "same time"! Jin asks where Sun is.

Miles asks where that guy came from; he thought he was on the boat. {Jin}
Daniel says the blast must have thrown him in the water, {Convenient. huh?!} “He’s been moving with every flash, just like us.”
Sawyer tries to explain the flashing to Jin. “Every time the sky lights up, we move through time.”
Jin looks like he’s crazy. He wants Charlotte {who is not bleeding} to translate for him.
Sawyer thinks Jin was asking Miles for help. Miles is from Encino. Lol!!
Charlotte says Jin wants to know how he’s sure his wife is off the island.
Locke observes the translations.
Sawyer’s surprised Red speaks Korean.
Locke- “Tell him I’m sure. But none of it will matter if we don’t make it to the Orchid.”
Red translates that he’s sure; they need to go to a Station called the Orchid. She also tells Jin the Orchid is a way off the Island.
Locke is planning to bring back everyone including Sun.  He explains they have to bring her back, because she never should have left.

Sun, holding the gun on Ben says she spent the last three years believing her husband was dead.
Ben tells her there is someone in Los Angeles who can help, who can show her proof. This is the same person who will show them how to get back to the island.
Kate is pissed; that's what this is about. She accuses Jack of pretending to care about Aaron because he knew about this, “To convince me to go back there.”
Jack wasn’t pretending anything.
Kate claims this is insane and they’re crazy.
Jack tries to stop her from leaving.
Sayid walks away as he wants no part of this. If he sees Jack or Ben again, “it will be extremely unpleasant for all of us.”
Ben tells Sun they can be there in 30 minutes and she’ll have proof that he’s alive, “Or you can shoot me and never know.”
Sun- “Let’s go.”

Jin asks Locke how far.
It’s just over the next ridge. {Walk by muddy creek}
Jin wants to know how Locke will leave the island.
Locke’s not sure, but Jin wants to go with him.
Locke tells Jin, “No. No. It doesn’t work like that. It’s a one man job.”
Of course Jin wonders why.
Locke doesn’t know why, it just is. He promises to bring Sun back.
Charlotte looks like shit but walks on. She doesn’t want a break; she just wants to get there.
Dan asks her if she speaks any other languages.
She-“Just Klingon.” {Alien}
She asks Dan is this gonna work. Dan feels it does make empirical sense that if this started at the Orchid that’s where it will stop. “But as far as bringing back the people who left in order to stop these temporal shifts, that’s where we leave science behind.”
They sky lights up, magnet hum. They look up... OH NO! They grab their heads. Flash! Instantly it's night. Magnetic hum and buzz...here it comes again! They all grab their heads… Flash! Instantly it's day.  Charlotte falls over; her eyes are open but nobody‘s home and her nose is bleeding.   Juliet’s nose is bleeding, and so is Sawyer’s.
Dan tries to get her wake her/conscious. She wakes speaking Korean to Jin.
Sawyer wants to know what she said.
In English Charlotte says, “Don’t let them bring her back. No matter what. Don’t let them bring her back. This place is death.”

Ben drives Sun to his destination; Apparently there’s traffic.
Jack apologizes to Sun for leaving Jin behind, “Everything was just happening so fast, I knew he was down below, we should have waited for him.”
Sun wants to know why he’s telling her this now, “Or are you going to ask me not to kill Ben if he’s lying about my husband?“
Ben’s getting pissed.
Jack- “What he just did to Kate, if you don’t do it Sun, I will.”
Ben slams on the breaks and turns to them, claiming to be helping them. “And if you had any idea what I’ve had to do to keep helping keep you safe, to keep your friends safe, you’d never stop thanking me. . .You wanna shoot me then shoot me.  But let’s get on with it. What‘s it gonna be?”
Sun just tells Ben to, ‘Drive.”

Jin hands Dan the flask.
Charlotte-“Why can’t daddy come with us?”
Charlotte is “somewhere else.”
Dan-“Charlotte, can you hear me?”
Charlotte- "You know what my mum would say about me marrying an American. (She looks right at Dan) I know more about ancient Carthage than Hannibal himself.”
Dan doesn't have any idea what she's talking about.
Locke says they need to keep moving.
Dan needs help to carry her. {Carrier} 
Locke feels she’s gonna hold them up.
Dan-“We can’t just leave her.”
Sawyer notes the flashes are getting closer together.  He says to Dan, “Maybe when your nose starts bleeding, you’ll realize we gotta get out of Dodge now. We’ll come back for her just as soon as we can.” {Watch Juliet!} There’s no way Dan will leave her behind. FLASH!!! {No warning}.
Charlotte tells them to go! “Ohhh, Turn it up. I love Geronimo Jackson.”
Juliet tells Dan they’re running out of time.
Dan tells them to go and he’ll stay with Charlotte.
Sawyer asks John, if we don’t even know when the hell we are, what happens if the Orchid aint around anymore?”
John looks as if he never thought of that.
Charlotte tells them to look for the well, “You’ll find it at the well.”
They move on, leaving Dan and Charlotte behind.

On their trek Miles get a nosebleed.
Locke with his big knife leads them to the Orchid; what’s left of it, anyway.
Juliet wonders what the odds that they would end up in the same time, “as this thing.” FLASH!  No Orchid. Locke leaves, as if he instinctively knows where to go. Through the jungle he finds the well. {Ruins} A rope hangs into the well.
Miles wonders how Charlotte knew the well was there.
Charlotte tells Dan she’s been there before. He looks baffled. She goes on to tell him she "grew up on the Island. There was this thing, this Dharma Initiative, and then I moved away, with my mum. Just my mum, and I never saw my dad again.  And then when I got back to England wh- when I asked my mum about this place, yeah, that she would say it wasn’t real and that I’d made it up. That’s why I became an Anthropologist, to find this island again. It what I’ve been searching for my whole life.”
Dan asks why she’s telling him this.
It’s because she remembered something now, “When I was little, living here, there was this man, this crazy man, he really scared me, and he told me that I had to leave the island and never ever come back. He told me that if I came back, I would die.”
Dan, very caring, “Charlotte. I don’t understand.“
Charlotte's crying, “Daniel. I think that man was you.”

Sawyer questions Locke, “You going down there?”
Yep, he is!
Sawyer- “What exactly are you hoping to find?”
Locke says he's looking for a way off the island.
Sawyer-“Expecting a subway?”
Locke-“Goodbye James.”
He’ll see them when he gets back.
Jin stops him to tell him not to bring Sun back.
Locke- “No. I have to bring them all back. That‘s how it works.”
Jin- “How you know?”
Locke- “I just know.”
Jin threatens to cut the rope.
Locke says if he does that, “you’ll kill every one of us.”
Jin-"This Island is bad. You don’t bring Sun back. You promise. You promise you don’t bring my baby.”
John gives his word.
Jin- “Promise, John.”
John promises. He tells Jin that he won’t go to Sun, but she may find him and if she does, what does he tell her.
Jin wants Sun to believe he is dead. {Which he is not}.
Jin- “You say I wash up. You bury me.”
Jin removes his wedding ring and wants John to give it to her as proof. {Proof of a lie.}
John will be back as soon as he can. He grabs the rope, ready to go.
Sawyer-“Are you sure you don’t want us to lower you down?“
Adventurous John feels "Where would be the fun in that?"
Juliet thanks John for whatever he’s attempting to do actually works. John descends into the hatch, uh, I mean, well. A Flash is starting. They all look up. The light is coming from deep in the well. Sawyer tries to help John, “Hold on!”
Locke falls into the well.

Sawyer is left holding the rope and only the rope.  The well is gone.
He is upset Locke is down in there.
Juliet tells “James. We can’t help him.”

Dan tells Charlotte to “Hold on. Stay with me.”  He’s got a plan.
He tells her when “we were back at the hatch I talked to Desmond "I told him to find my mother. She can help us Charlotte, she will help us.”
Charlotte asks how can his mother help them.
Dan feels she just can.
Charlotte is bleeding and coughing. In a moment she looks at Dan, “I’m not allowed to have chocolate before dinner. Umm” gasp.
Dan cries, “Charlotte."


Locke broke his leg; he calls up for James, “Can you hear me? Can anyone hear me?”
John hears footsteps, “Who’s there?”
A man, Christian, with his back to John, lights a lantern.
John asks him what he’s doing down there.
"Christian" is there to help John the rest of the way. {Boone wanted to help Locke find his way. So he can bring the family back together.}
John doesn’t understand.
Christian reminds him that “You came to see me in the cabin, you asked me how to save the island and I told you to move it. I said that you had to move it, John.”
John explains that Ben said he knew how to do it. Ben told him “to stay here and lead his people.”
Christian- “And since when did listening to him get you anywhere worth a damn? The good news is that you‘re here now. Are you ready to go?”
John doesn’t know what to do once he gets there.
Christian tells him there’s a woman living in Los Angeles, once you get all of your friends together, it must be all of them, everyone who left, and once you’ve persuaded them to join you, this woman will tell you exactly how to come back.”
Her name is Eloise Hawking.
John’s concerned what if he can only convince some of them.
Christian-"I believe in you, John. You can do this.”
John shares with him that, "Richard, said I was going to die.”
Christian- “I suppose that’s why they call it sacrifice.”
John is ready.
Christian tells him on the other side of this column here is a wheel, slipped off its axis, all you have to do is give it a little 'push'.”
John asks him to help him up.
Christian-”No sorry I can’t.”
Determined John gets up, sees the “stuck” wheel; there's a magnet hum, bright light blinks in.
Christian watches him, “Good luck, John.“
Through his pain, John grabs on and “pulls” the wheel back. {You can hear the metal sounds/clanks.} The light gets bright.
Christian-“Say hello to my son.”
John- “Who’s your son?"

Sun, Jack and Ben pull up to a church with a lamp post in front.  Ben asks Sun’s permission to get something out of his pocket. He gives her Jin wedding ring.
Ben tells her John gave it to him.
Jack comments to Ben, "You said John never came to see you.”
Ben- “That’s true Jack. I went to see him.”
Jin gave the ring to John before he left the Island.
Why didn’t Locke tell her himself? Ben suggests maybe he never have a chance before he died. Ben goes on to apologize for waiting to get there to give her the ring, but those “people back on the island, Jin included, need our help. There is a woman in this church and she can tell us how to get back to your husband, but we’re running out of time, Sun. So I need you to decide right now, will you come with me?”
She looks at the ring and says, “Yes.”

Desmond walks up to the group in front of the church and asks what they are doing there. Jack is shocked to see him while Ben is surprised.
Ben-“I assume the same thing you are.”
Desmond- “You’re looking for Faraday’s motha too?”
Ben looks...{Des thinks he's looking for Faraday's mom}
They enter the church where Ben says hello to Eloise.
She is lighting white candles, “Hello Benjamin. I thought I said all of them.”
Ben tells her this is all he could get on short notice.
Eloise supposes that will have to do for now, “All right. Let's get started.”





This Place is Death is a GREAT EPISODE!!! Are you ready to leave the science part behind?

Things to note...Questions to ask...
* Eye color changes.
 * Hurley’s voice repeating the numbers. Any other familiar voices?
* Smokey Sounds- Growl, Roar, Clicking, Metal gears, Crank.
* Flash-Bright light-Sounds- Magnet hummm- Buzzing. Head pain-Nose Bleed.
* Charlotte mentions Carthage. In the episode ?, Eko mentions "salting the earth".  This occurred at the end of the Third Punic War between the Roman Republic and Carthage.
* Under. Down. Subway. Submarine.
* What place is death? The one I saw babies born on?
* Marrying Americans. I wonder if Ji Yeon would ever marry Aaron in the future?
* Jin is alive. Nobody killed him. He’s NOT dead! If he’s not dead, how can you bank on anyone else assumed dead is DEAD?!
* How can Jin find the radio tower? He stayed behind to ambush the Others. Danielle led the castaways to it.
* Lamp post outside church. Dharma Station. Christian holds a lantern. {Light}
* Christian wasn’t wearing a parker. I guess it’s not cold.
* Jin has a red star on the back of his shirt.
* Charlotte and Claire don't want certain people brought back to the Island.
* Charlotte’s last words were about eating chocolate before dinner. (Apollo bars)
* Boar/animals didn’t eat Montands' arm or the other bodies.
* Is there a chance Danielle gave birth to a boy?
* Charlotte dies...eyes open.
* Rings. Wedding rings, Drive Shaft "Band" Rings...circle-loop.
* It’s like we’re seeing the same test/experiment/journey run over and over and over.
* This time limit, running out of time, etc...does this have to do with the game part of the story. Maybe they’re on a schedule to catch a train, or submarine.
* Limbs- Montand arm. Ray’s Arm and Candles arm, did they lose their arms in similar "run ins" with Smokey?
* Smoke Monster underground. Christian and John underground. John-sacrifice.
* John always allows Ben to take control of everything.
John seems to fall for Ben’s "jive talking." Is Ben taking control of John’s tasks and such because he’s just a Sith Lord? Or is Ben saving John’s butt because he knows John has an issue listening and following instructions? John seems to not be able to complete tasks properly or do the right thing. Even when heading into the well he does not let Sawyer lower him in.  It would have been easier and John may not have gotten hurt.  Do you ever think the poor man keeps on taking the hard way to accomplish things?   I don't think John is really listening to instructions.














Vocabulary and Research…

* Temporal-for relating to time. -Of limited time; not perpetual. -Of or relating to the material world; not spiritual. - Lasting a short time only.
* Temporal database is a database with built-in time aspects, e.g. a temporal data model and a temporal version of structured query language.
* Temporality is a term often used in philosophy in talking about the way time is.
* Temple- indicates the side of the head behind the eyes. The bone beneath is the temporal bone. This use of temple is a separate etymology than the word "temple" for "place of worship". Both come Latin, but the word for the place of worship comes from templum, whereas the word for the part of the head comes from Vulgar Latin 
*tempula, modified from tempora, plural form ("both temples") of tempus, a word that meant both "time" and the part of the head. Due to the common source with the word for time, the adjective for both is "temporal" (both "pertaining to time" and "pertaining to the temple").
* The Temple- a short story by H.P. Lovecraft. (1920)
* Sleep temples (aka dream temples or Egyptian sleep temples) are regarded by some as an early instance of hypnosis over 4000 years ago, under the influence of Imhotep.
* Sleep temples were hospitals of sorts, healing a variety of ailments, perhaps many of them psychological in nature. The treatment involved chanting, placing the patient into a trance-like or hypnotic state, and analyzing their dreams in order to determine treatment. Meditation, fasting, baths and sacrifices to the patron deity or other spirits were often involved as well.
* Sleep temples also existed in the Middle East and Ancient Greece. In Greece, they were built in honor of Asclepios, the Greek god of medicine. The Greek treatment was referred to as incubation, and focused on prayers to Asclepios for healing. A similar Hebrew treatment was referred to as Kavanah, and involved focusing on letters of the Hebrew alphabet.
* Sir Mortimer Wheeler unearthed a Roman Sleep temple at Lydney Park, Gloucestershire, in 1928, with the assistance of a young J.R.R. Tolkin.
* Incubation is the religious practice of sleeping in a sacred area with the intention of experiencing a divinely inspired dream or cure. Incubation was adopted by certain Christian sects and is still used in a few Greek monasteries.
* A votive offering/deposit is an object left in a sacred place for ritual purposes. Such items are a feature of modern and ancient societies and are generally made in order to gain favor with supernatural forces. Votive offerings have been described in historical Roman era and Greek sources, although similar acts continue into the present day, for example the modern day practice of tossing coins into a wishing well or fountain.
Today votives can be lit candles, or offered flowers, statues, vestments, jewelry, personal items, and of course monetary donations.
* A potential well is the region surrounding a local minimum of potential energy. Energy captured in a potential well is unable to convert to another type of energy (kinetic energy in the case of a gravitational potential well) because it is captured in the local minimum of a potential well. Therefore, a body may not proceed to the global minimum of potential energy, as it would naturally tend to due to entropy.
* The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, normally shortened to The WELL, is one of the oldest virtual communities in continuous operation.
* "Essence," in metaphysics, is often synonymous with the soul.
* Axis - In anatomy, he second cervical vertebra (C2) of the spine is named the axis (from Latin axis, "axle") or epistropheus.
* Consciousness basis-
John Locke considered personal identity (the self) to be founded on consciousness (viz. Memory), and not on the substance of either the soul or the body. Chapter XXVII "On Identity and Diversity" in AN Essay Concerning Human Understanding (1689) has been said to be one of the first modern conceptualization of consciousness as the repeated self-identification of oneself. Through this identification, moral responsibility could be attributed to the subject and punishment and guilt could be justified

According to Locke, personal identity (the self) "depends on consciousness, not on substance" nor on the soul. We are the same person to the extent that we are conscious of our past and future thoughts and actions in the same way as we are conscious of our present thoughts and actions. If consciousness is this "thought" which "that goes along with the substance ... which makes the same person", then personal identity is only founded on the repeated act of consciousness: "This may show us wherein personal identity consists: not in the identity of substance, but... in the identity of consciousness". For example, one may claim to be a reincarnation of Plato, therefore having the same soul substance. However, one would be the same person as Plato only if one had the same consciousness of Plato's thoughts and actions that he himself did. Therefore, self-identity is not based on the soul. One soul may have various personalities.

In philosophy , essence is the attribute or set of attributes that make an object or substance what it fundamentally is, and which it has by necessity, and without which it loses its identity.


Photo from the past...
We're no stranger to carriers. But carriers of what? Maybe it's just "baggage".




 




I believe we do see metaphoric examples of death and re-birth. Not that things (always) physically die and come back, but more like a major ending to something and a new beginning has to happen. There are many layers in front of us, testing, experiments, medical, physical, military, family lineage, DNA, games, tricks, lies, manipulation, birth, death and so much more.   But we are reminded on a weekly basis that this show has a huge metaphor layer as well.  I never wavier too far off that principle when detailing the episodes. Locke again is faced with a challenge and is crippled going into it...{Again!}

We see that some are "Stuck" in a lost "place". Some can't move forward. Some even deal with "replaying" the negative experience over and over again when they really need to "let it go." And we all know that even if we feel we can't move forward, sometimes life "pushes" us to make a move forward. And usually it's all for a reason.
Destiny... Everything happens the way it’s supposed to happen. If we are all destined for something can we really change anything?  Of course we need to take control of our own actions, decisions and even career paths. But in the end, no matter how much we want to or how badly we want things to be different, are our paths written out? Are we the cause of our own suffering...our own joy?

“The what it was to be.”- Aristotle

Love to all who are “LOST”™

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Disclaimer: I never claim to know everything about the show and my thoughts by no means make me right! The things I share here are my views and/or opinions. I don't claim to catch every single detail either! You all know I hate spoilers! And I stand clear of reading certain sites as to not take me off my own course of research. The one thing I don't need to do here is rehash all of the obvious clues from an episode, we all know what they are. Understood? Let the fun begin! I'll only note things that I know come up as clues later, but need to be noted when they first show up and things I find that will be of importance.